Can adult women project "pretty" and be taken seriously?
It wasn't until I joined YLF that I realized that pretty could be grown up and didn't need to be just ballarinas, pink tulle and sparkles. What do you think?
56 Comments
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replied 9 years ago
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Aziraphale replied 9 years ago
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Suz replied 9 years ago
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Beth Ann replied 9 years ago
I know that I feel brighter and happier when I'm around other women dressed "grownup pretty." I like arty/edgy looks too --- as if creative dressing helps unlock my own creative energy.
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MsMary replied 9 years ago
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Day Vies replied 9 years ago
Aziraphale brought up a great point on how pretty is used. A woman in her prime is generally described using goregeous, beautiful, attractive, but pretty connotes something or someone that's dainty, fragile or requires protection of some sort (like babies, small children, adolescents, and little old ladies).
We all have the potential to be pretty but beyond style preference why have many of us given up pretty or decided not to show this side of ourselves consciously or unconsiously? -
ramya replied 9 years ago
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Day Vies replied 9 years ago
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ironkurtin replied 9 years ago
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Sona replied 9 years ago
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Sara L. replied 9 years ago
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Angie replied 9 years ago
Okay. I need to write a blog post about this because when I hear negative talk about "pretty", I furrow my brow. Being called pretty is a beautiful compliment! End of story.
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RoseandJoan replied 9 years ago
I'm drawn to soft fabrics, soft silhouettes, soft colours and some aspects of vintage. I am not twee, saccharin or frivolous. I hope I come across to others as having a grown up yet pretty style. I am certainly not a push over. -
rae replied 9 years ago
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goldenpig replied 9 years ago
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Transcona Shannon replied 9 years ago
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replied 9 years ago
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Echo replied 9 years ago
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Thistle replied 9 years ago
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Janet replied 9 years ago
An artists' group that I belong to had a lively discussion one day about being taken seriously as an artist if your work is considered "beautiful" or "pretty." We started calling it the "pretty problem." So much of the art that gets attention by the critical world is not "pretty" and to the contrary uses visual dissonance and ugliness to make a statement. When work is "pretty," people often stop at that surface assessment and fail to look deeper at what the work means.
I suppose one could argue there is a parallel with looks and style. However, I can think of a lot of women who are/dress "pretty" but still forces to be taken seriously. Again, the devil is in the details -- situation appropriateness comes into play of course (there is a time and place for ruffles and other "pretty" details, and you have to know how much and when to use them), but I've never thought of "pretty" as anything other than a compliment.
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Day Vies replied 9 years ago
I just wanted to be perfectly clear that I absolutely agree that "pretty" is indeed a wonderful complement.
I was just picking up on Deborah's hesitation in using the word and associating it with a juvenille look. I also wanted to explore some of my own conditioning with regard to the word. Especially when I know I have often censored myself when describing someone I see as authoratative and strong by not also describing them as pretty. I am more likely to use "attractive" or "gorgeous", because I don't want to diminish their credibility in the eyes of my audience. I am certainly aware that being attractive does not mean empty-headed or lacking in gravitas.
I think Janet has a point. Critical acclaim and deep contemplation is generally reserved for things that aren't "pretty" in art and sometimes in fashion. I remember a thread some months ago about wearing silhouettes that aren't necessarily figure flattering to make a statement or to achieve a certain look. -
rachylou replied 9 years ago
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Jyoti replied 9 years ago
Eh. I would like to think so, because I think my style is starting to skew quite heavily towards pretty/girly/romantic, but I have to say that in the past little while I've come across some remarks that make me think its more difficult to be taken seriously when projecting 'pretty'.I'm in the medical profession and I was reading something online about some reality show involving doctors. There was apparently a scene where a female doctor said that if she felt pretty, she had a good day. There were TONS of comments suggesting that people would switch doctors if their doctor dared to care so much about her appearance. My takeaway is that apparently the stereotype pretty/caring about appearances = vacous is very much alive.I've also had a patient tell me to stop wearing such high heels, and a lot of older creepy patient dudes make inappropriate remarks about my clothes. Apparently I don't project enough gravitas that they treat me like their doctor, lol. I do think the things I have experienced go beyond pretty as a descriptor and more towards the struggle between caring about appearances and certain professions/roles that we fill. Apparently patients trust doctors in scrubs the most. xDI have to say that compared to the comments here, I definitely see pretty, as it is commonly used linguistically, as more like cute and twee and related to dainty/delicate, etc. as was previously mentioned. Beautiful has different connotations as does gorgeous. They all essentially are driving at the same idea but bring up different associated imagery in my mind, and I think that's where your question comes from. In summary, I think they can, but it is more difficult. I think that's why the 'power suit' exists. Its a shortcut for a woman to plant ideas about how she'd like to be perceived by others. Its ubiquitous presence in the media and pop culture has conditioned our minds that the power suit = powerful woman. In a similar vein, pretty is more often attached to other kinds of women (whether we like or approve of this or not).
I don't even know what I'm saying anymore. I hope something of this post is relevant, lol. -
rachylou replied 9 years ago
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deb replied 9 years ago
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Aziraphale replied 9 years ago
However true it may be that "pretty" and "beautiful" are not perfectly synonymous adjectives, I would still consider it a compliment if someone applied either term to me. Neither implies weakness. I would be less thrilled about "cute" for that reason -- although I'm probably a little oversensitive, owing to the fact that I'm short. Smallness and cuteness often go together in people's minds, and let me tell you, it's hard to get taken seriously by anybody when they think of you as cute.
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K. Period. replied 9 years ago
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lyn* replied 9 years ago
I don't mind being pretty (I may twirl when I am alone) - and I think as a clinician I sometimes use that to my advantage, especially when I project "put together" pretty, not necessarily bimbo airhead pretty. When people think I'm honest-to-goodness sweet, it seems like I don't really have a hidden agenda, and patients are more forthcoming with me.
What comes to mind for me is that I have a colleague who is very conventionally beautiful and wears very tailored clothes - you could stick her in France or Italy on any old day and she'd just belong there - and I think people think she is more cold or has a nasty attitude, even though she is a very nice and considerate person.
I smile a lot as well - and tend to use a lot of humour (as appropriate) and empathetic statements - but that's also part of the therapeutic persona (which of course, is grounded in who I am as a person).
I think "pretty" is good for taking people off guard too, and it is also useful for when you need someone to help you do things :p Like lift heavy boxes. Or do car things when you're kinda stuck. Tee hee. -
dizzys replied 9 years ago
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Caro in Oz replied 9 years ago
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dizzys replied 9 years ago
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lyn* replied 9 years ago
"Oh... I forgot money to buy coffee. DOES ANYONE HAVE MONEY TO BUY COFFEE?" -
Nicole D replied 9 years ago
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dizzys replied 9 years ago
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rachylou replied 9 years ago
You know, coming to have a look-see and then laughing is exactly what attractive isn't. Isn't that weird?
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Deborah replied 9 years ago
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Day Vies replied 9 years ago
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replied 9 years ago
Are you kidding me Rachy? I know exactly what you mean. I had one of those no socks moments at my dentist office years ago. I swear, had I been single at the time, I would have made a move. That is also how I would feel if I ever meet Keanu Reeves in person, one day. I am waiting for Una to hook me up.You are a hoot.
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Jaime replied 9 years ago
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Suz replied 9 years ago
I take "pretty" as a compliment, too.
It's partly about taking care, isn't it. We "pretty ourselves." If someone says we are pretty they are noticing that we have attended to the details. -
Joy replied 9 years ago
This is another one of those amazing discussions. Growing up in the 50s, there were girls who were pretty and girls who were intelligent and it seemed impossible to be both. I would probably take bring called pretty an insult then. There is still some of this thinking around, but I hope that females can be recognized as both today.
Didn't President Obama recently get criticized for calling a woman pretty or attractive (even though she is)? We were in Japan and I didn't get the details. -
Aziraphale replied 9 years ago
Haha, Suz, Venn diagram. I'd forgotten about those. Don't we need three terms to draw one? Pretty, beautiful, attractive, maybe?
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Freckles replied 9 years ago
I've always thought both pretty and cute were compliments, neither referring to youth or weakness. -
rachylou replied 9 years ago
I will also ponder where drop dead goes, because I don't think it has the same attractive nature. It has a brain paralysing, eye-burning effect. It's a thrill, like an electric shock, and not necessarily enjoyable in the same way. I mean, for real, people did not like to be near No Socks. There would be people going in and out of the kitchen for little rest breaks.
The pretty or intelligent question... an interesting one. The sort of thing one contemplates in middle school, and it's pretty critical one in determining your path to success. No one asks beautiful or intelligent, tho. That's probably telling. Anyways, I think all "high potential" middle schoolers know it's better to be pretty. Pretty gets you perks and you don't have to do anything. Intelligence, tho, och! The suffering! Everybody is so freeking slow!
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T-Rex replied 9 years ago
I remember hearing one of my best friends refer to several young girls dressed for their Quinceanera as "lovely", and I thought that was the best descriptor she could have chosen. It seemed to imply something more than "pretty", but I find it difficult to describe what it is. It's as though "pretty" is on the surface, but "lovely" implies a glow from within. BTW, she is a linguist. She puts effort into finding the perfect word for the occasion.
I've been known to use the word "handsome" when referring to a woman, which does not mean I think she looks like a man. I believe this word pops into my head when I see a beautiful woman who has a strong, distinctive bone structure, if that makes any sense. Surface beauty, or prettiness, or cuteness may change or fade over time. A handsome woman will be handsome no matter how old she is, because the architecture will still be there.
And finally, I remember a pretty funny bit about all these terms from an episode of News Radio. I can't look for it now, but I'll post it if and when I find it. -
T-Rex replied 9 years ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7iU2HFUXaU -
T-Rex replied 9 years ago
If you don't have someone like that in your life, maybe try this. If you feel that an interviewer likes you personally, but you still don't get the job, try getting in touch with him or her later and ask for honest feedback. The worst they could do is say no. -
Irene replied 9 years ago
I always understood 'pretty' as in 'fine looking' or 'rather attractive yet not truly beautiful'. Also a feminine adjective, like you wouldn't call a man/boy 'pretty'. I never thought it would sound juvenile though!
Pleas enlighten me here? :)
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Ginkgo replied 9 years ago
Cute is an adjective I use for children but as others have said, I'd use it for an adult in referring to her outfit or total look.
To me, feminine is not the same as girlish or twee, but it seems to me on the forum that frequently a feminine look is not held in high regard and considered girlish. Guess my rule is that pink ruffles would be twee, but neutral or dark ruffles are adult. -
rachylou replied 9 years ago
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dizzys replied 9 years ago
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Vildy replied 9 years ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPWwGFSBZn0
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Adelfa replied 9 years ago
I think of pretty as an asset to professional success. Quite easy to be taken seriously if you wield it well. The head of our agency is gorgeous (and pretty and beautiful--they're not the same but she is all of the above, the sweet spot on the Venn diagram) and also the sound of her voice is beautiful. We all take her seriously.
Growing up in the sixties and seventies I definitely believed in the smart vs pretty dichotomy. I also believed that true beauty knew no artifice, and that any other kind was not worth having, so it took me forever to learn to wear makeup, style my hair, etc.
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T-Rex replied 9 years ago
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Firecracker (Sharan) replied 9 years ago
I have to say, DV, that I would be flattered to be called pretty. And sometimes I think I would give up any claims to being taken seriously, if that's what it would take to be unquestionably pretty. But I know I wouldn't really be happy if people didn't take me seriously; in fact, I couldn't bear that.
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T-Rex replied 9 years ago
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I am fascinated with the process of getting dressed every day -- to me this is more challenging than getting dressed for a big event because what I wear is dictated by my activities, work environment, and the weather. Living in a climate that guarantees four seasons (or at least two extremes) provides both challenges and inspiration.